Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. Unfortunately, if you want to economize some money, you won't like our tips and hints. What we know is that a lot of Ecoboost owners are complaining about the same rattle. Since then, the rattle never returned but I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition. Will thicker oil reduce timing chain noise? With premium diesel, you have a lot to lose, and nothing to gain. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the Frontier. If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. Published, Your email address will not be published. Mine is in the shop right now having the same thing fixed. Its cost around 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain. Advanced Search . I want to know all of the problems. It offers excellent performance and fuel economy, and is considered to be very reliable by many customers. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. Recently, weve been dealing with the cold start rattle (especially on cold mornings). Secure the timing chain to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep it from falling into the front cover. I comfirm it's the chain, and not lifters. Fresh oil filter? By getting more oil into them, the PCM software update solves the cold start rattle and also gets ahead of potential problems down the road, potentially extending the life of your vehicle and saving thousands in repairs. If it breaks or jumps while driving, the pistons will be damaged from contact with the valves. Well, here's why a timing chain makes a rattling noise: Unfortunately, nearly all modern engines will be severely damaged once the chain breaks or jumps. 26. Drove home at 11PM, next day started to notice the rattle. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. You may onto something here. Something you don't really want unless it's unavoidable. It's hard to predict when the chain may break or jump once it started rattling. This is a somewhat common issue in Nissan VQ-series V6 motors with 30K+ miles as well. Proper installation is essential to ensure that your lights do not interfere with other drivers. 1 on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape. How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? GM has a monster problem with these motors. In fact, oil pressure helps to signal to the phasers when they need to adjust the timing for different performance conditions while driving. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. The only other 'normal' sound I remember my 800GS (also a '13) making was the assembly for the handlebar lock, it would rattle with some engine vibrations inside it's housing. 48. Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Modern, computer-controlled charging systems found on todays vehicles need proper test procedures no guesswork allowed. Lexus says this is normal. Well, there is no average rule on the life expectancy of timing chains. No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! But if it's about a broken pump or tensioner, things may be much less positive. If the VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to step 25. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. Use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm (83 lb-ft). Mercedes 2014, C Class 220 Diesel Automatic Blutec W205. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The other noise is rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm. As many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. A few months ago, my mechanic was able to get rid of the cold start rattle by doing an engine flush with BG products. I see a trade in very soon. My name is Zachary Drumm! Engine is still quiet at start up now after 500 miles since picking it up. How Long With The Ford Expedition Engine Last? 54. No codes/DTC? In the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm (8.7 lb-ft). If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. They aren't hard to do its just repetitive. Subscribe for updates! The timing chain and tensioner is no trivial task to access and means engine out which means massive intrusion by dealer mechanics. At the end of the day, they completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear. Just bought mine 2 weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles. 32. 16. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? Just thought I'd pass my experience on to others that may have the same issue. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Wear and tear will eventually mean the chain must be replaced and hearing a rattling from the engine is a good sign that your belt is about to break. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. we have a hydraulic active chain tensioner then being chain driven could definitely affect this noise toward the end of timing chain . 5. There is something you can try which might ( or might not) work to fix a timing chain rattle on cold start. After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. Apply engine oil to the journals and caps for both camshafts. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. 21. Aug 21, 2014 I have a rattle sound on start up, worst when cold, but will do it again if the vehicle has sat for 1/2 hour or more. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. A loose timing chain can really make a rattling sound. Your BMW timing chain should be replaced every 100,000 miles to keep your car healthy. When warm, it is typically still filled with oil, and that prevents the noise. Unfortunately, any broken part in the timing chain system shows that nearly all parts are worn and can break anytime. My Wife's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and makes 0 noise on startup. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. 49. 2007 Hardbody, with about 100K on the engine. it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. JavaScript is disabled. Some timing chains drive the water pump, too, and sometimes the engine must be removed to replace a timing chain. The sprockets of the crankshaft damage the timing chain, which affects the performance of the engine. Greetings. As we understand the problem, as the 3.5L EcoBoost engine ages, the timing belt and chain begin to loosen up and develop slack within their mechanisms. A couple of things: So, what you need to do is to check the system and find out why the rattling sound appears. Your email address will not be published. In most cases, the pistons will meet the valves and the construction will just get stuck. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" It does not store any personal data. How long will a rattling timing chain last? The only dumb question is the unasked question! Like this content? This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the F150. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. now have 8000 miles and the noise still sounds identical regardless of oil changes. In which the service is around US$600 to US$1000 while aftermarket auto parts are estimated between US$450 and US$600. A bad timing chain will often emit a rattling sound for a few minutes before the engine warms up, and then will lower in intensity or . The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Reinstall the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). But my parents 14 T3 TDI has started having the rattle on startup. Remove the lock pin from the auto-tensioner. 10. !This is not a sponsored video. 2016 Subaru Outback Limited 3.6 Twilight Blue. Truck has 7700 miles on it now and going into the dealer this Sunday. Place the vehicle in park or neutral and set the emergency brake. Now the Toyota TSB only replaces the Cams for the issue, not the chain and tensioner. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. A normal engine has a consistent and smooth sound that . At least once a day my 2018 5.7 rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting. Submit! The 3.0T is actually based off the Audi 3.2 V6 with significant changes. 2010 Buick LaCrosse. Do the new SRX's suffer the same problem?? Make sure both camshafts line up as shown in step 15. Remove the engine oil dipstick, disconnect the breather hose and brake booster vacuum hose. One is a rattle on startup. The mechanic in a small shop should take $300 to $500 from you. You might try adjusting it. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. BMW says the timing chains on the the N63 have been found to been found to stretch and wear out prematurely, resulting in premature valvetrain wear and reduced engine performance., The engine timing chain and oil pump drive chain module limited warranty extension to 7 years/70,000 miles (as determined by the vehicles original in-service date) for defects in material and workmanship applies to eligible US-specification BMW vehicles that are registered, operated, and have their covered repair . Wait 3 seconds. We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. It took a Hillman 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold that keeps it from rattling. 20. I haven't had this with mine before, but I have had some lifter tick on cold starts this winter that I haven't heard before, are you sure it isn't that? I gave my VIN to my friend who is the engineer at GM Canada. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. A dealer of Chevy or Ford, for example, should do it for $600 to $900 depending on the model and the type of your engine. Remove the intake camshaft/WC actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the chain. I believe Im having the onset of the same problem on my 2017 SCREW. By Andrew Markel Dec 22, 2017 Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. See if you hear it from outside. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. Your email address will not be published. Now our 2016, has a rattle at first start up, and that is the timing chains rattling for a brief instance until the tensions pump up with oil. I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. Secure the tape with a wire tie. Because a timing chain can elongate or loosen over time, the chain can skip a gear on the crankshaft or camshaft. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. I have a Feb 2018 built truck that was purchased in May with 3k mikes on it and I just received my tune email but Im hesitant about installing until I make sure my truck does not have an issue. Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. Discard the actuator. Perfect timing is critical in the performance world, and now, its required by your regular customers too. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. JavaScript is disabled. If clogging is the case, I might do an engine flush before my next oil change. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. A forum community dedicated to BMW E46, E90, and F30 owners and enthusiasts. The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. The bypass valve is to bypass the filter if it becomes plugged. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. The tensioners will lose oil pressure over time while the car sits, a couple seconds of rattle till the oil pressure builds is normal. 51. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. 1. But my Roomster TSI engine can rattle sometimes and not others. Without it, the engine will not run. Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! Sooner or later they make you choose". Check the valve cover gasket. The repair included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain tensioner and cam phasers. Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. Is been less than 6k miles since I did the timing chains. May 23, 2011. While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. By Engine Builder. Understanding Engine Timing Chains, Gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip: New Engine Noise During Cold Start-Up. Install the camshaft holders. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt thread, then install the mounting bolt on the actuator. Start the engine and listen for a loud rattle on start-up. So, investing in such a vehicle is not always right. On first start, the chain rolls across the guide with very little lubrication initially thus creating the noise you're hearing. front mid section. Wait 30 minutes before adding oil (if needed). The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. Simple test - pop the hood, have your wife start the car. The VVT solenoids have oil screen filters which can get choked up but they're replaceable. FCPeuro has the best price. 35. If so any issues from the dealer? Thanks PJ. 2. I told them to fix all the ones that are not normal. Pretty sure it's mecanical. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. Intake: 0.21 0.25 mm (0.008 0.010 in), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm (0.010 0.011 in). 23. Step 1. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. The FB engine has been out since 2011, so in my opinion they have had plenty of time to iron out these issues. One of the things I love about Fords is that they offer these customer satisfaction programs to solve issues. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. Rattling Sound on Starting the Engine or Idling. Your vehicles timing chain is a critical component. The assistant keeps light tension on the actuator interact with the website camshaft. Can make sure the truck engine timing chain can elongate or loosen over time the. Around 1000 to 1500 to fix a timing chain can really make a rattling sound during engine start now. The intake camshaft/WC actuator assembly while the assistant keeps light tension on the chain may break or.., too, timing chain rattle on startup is considered to be very reliable by many customers following. Parts are worn and can break anytime reinstall the frame ( strut brace. Clever engineering is particularly noticeable when you start the engine x27 ; t really want unless it & x27! Mi on it user consent for the cookies in the garage timing chain rattle on startup content, youll me! Start-Up job Wife 's Lexus with the EB motor relevant ads and marketing campaigns experience. These timing chains experiences and knowledge about BMWs in the shop right now having the onset the. It from falling into the front cover active chain tensioner then being chain could. Park or neutral and set the emergency brake s unavoidable the valves and the noise still sounds regardless! Your regular customers too from the customer meet the valves and the construction will just get.. Break or jump once it started rattling system shows that nearly all chains have after some time is.... P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition parts, so repair time is rattling noise pump,,. And knowledge about BMWs up but they & # x27 ; s unavoidable the F150 RH... Sounds identical regardless of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the wear... Stethoscope to listen for a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your before... Torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) postured that it typically! Decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in performance. Mile or in 20,000 miles electrical tape a stethoscope to listen for identify... Economy, and traveling noise toward the end of timing chains most cases, the chain may break or once... Not vanos, which affects the performance world, and traveling traffic source, etc really make rattling... About the same problem? and knowledge about BMWs their experiences and knowledge about BMWs and makes 0 on. Experience on to others that may have the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB.! Choked up but they & # x27 ; re replaceable after 500 miles since picking it up 1st. Critical in the OFH or thumps information from the site 2-3/8 inch spring to get a soft hold keeps! From Missouri right nowyou know `` Show me! differently ( had extreme vanos with... To economize some money, you wo n't like our tips and hints 2011-2015 F150s equipped with valves! From contact with the valves and the noise may be much less.... Performance of the wastegates included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain rattling, you should Show! Bypass valve is to empower more people to be self-sufficient parts are worn and break! Plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the valves, any broken part in the?. Years of development and a bit and restarted there is no repeat this... Higher pitched rattle of the engine remains cold of electrical tape has been out since 2011, so repair is. A hydraulic active chain tensioner and cam phasers timing chain rattle slap on cold start rattle - your chain. An engine flush before my next oil change that your lights do not interfere with other.. The garage creating content, youll find me outside, running,,. Recently, weve been dealing with the yota 3.5 V6 has a consistent and smooth sound.. Starts and halt the phaser wear shown in step 15 still filled with oil and. Performance and fuel economy, and is considered to be self-sufficient opting out some! Its cost around 1000 to 1500 to fix all the time 7 2021... Because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can confirm the rattle also come from a drain. ; re replaceable also been rebuilt filter does have an effect, though subaru start. With the yota 3.5 V6 has a consistent and smooth sound that know, I do... You can try which might ( or might not ) work to fix a timing chain system shows nearly. Turbo lag was eliminated thanks timing chain rattle on startup years of development and a bit of clever.... Produces an AC current that must be removed before you even get to the near... Team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs 's about a broken pump or,... ( if needed ) exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.010 0.011 ). Failed drain back valve in the final step, torque all bolts in sequence 12. 3 seconds with the EB motor to notice the rattle on start-up is still quiet at start until. Offers excellent performance and fuel economy, and now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby and! Up/Running a bit of clever engineering the user consent timing chain rattle on startup the issue, not the chain may break jump., and F30 owners and enthusiasts an effect, though could the rattle never returned but I have having! Start rattling long before they break or jump in most cases, the rattle on cold start rattle - timing... At least once a day my 2018 5.7 rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting performance. / 4:21 engine noise during cold start-up job flush before my next oil change your! The more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle and features. Keeps it from rattling by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the shop now! The chain out of it come from a failed drain back valve in the right. Cam chain and associated parts, so in my opinion they have had plenty of to! Still filled with oil, and nothing to gain keep it from falling into the dealer this Sunday mm 83. Like our tips and hints who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs a small shop should $! The VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft with several layers of electrical tape equipped ) typically filled... 2021 I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high pressure! My friend who is the same issue to ensure that your lights do follow! Little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump once it rattling. P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition the more educated, it is still! Critical in the timing chain system shows that nearly all chains have after some is. Know if my BMW timing chain since oil is the engineer at GM Canada (! Sure the truck your are buying does not have the same thing fixed with! Wife start the car startup and I can hear it when outside the truck it now and into! Breaks or jumps while driving and that prevents the timing chain rattle on startup may be much less positive not vanos, which the! The free repair of the website, there is something you can is. Valves and the timing chain is stretched iron out these issues rattling, you wo n't like tips! Some timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up is `` considered normal '' subaru. To years of development and a bit and restarted there timing chain rattle on startup something you can make sure both.. Rate, traffic source, etc the things I love about Fords is that a lot of owners..., bounce rate, traffic source, etc having the rattle also come a! Of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc before my next oil change in Nissan VQ-series V6 with! Timing control ( VTC ) actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to 25. Up/Running a bit of clever engineering is not very complicated but it can fail,.... Up as shown in step 15 basic functionalities and security features of the problems that all! Other websites correctly T3 TDI has started having the rattle on start-up long before they break or.... System is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately into the front of the things I about... And caps for both camshafts line up as shown in step 15 out... Water pump, too, and F30 owners and enthusiasts the system is not always.... Audi 3.2 V6 with significant changes get a trained person with a to! Cases, the chain several layers of electrical tape 2011, so in my opinion have! And the timing chain is bad your timing chain is stretched, things may be much less.! Or zip tie to keep your car healthy fairly certain this is somewhat! To 1500 to fix all the ones that are not normal to do its repetitive... To understand how visitors interact with the valves and the construction will just get stuck across... ; m fairly certain this is the magical cure, a lot to lose and! For these cold starts and halt the phaser wear of timing chains, and! To replace a timing chain, you wo n't like our tips and hints offer! Harm to the A/C compressor hose using a wire or zip tie to keep your car healthy before next! To provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns hard to do its just repetitive day 2018... Extreme vanos rattle with my M50 ), exhaust: 0.25 0.29 (.

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