I already am apostate in the SBC because I believe God gifts men and women in the sharing of Gods word. Having debunked this mythical correlation could everyone just stop speaking as though there is one? I didnt have serious burns, jist brown patches, PTL! Alcoholics are liars- the best liars. I love them dearly & only wish they could have the love & grace that you & your church offered to her. Gossip and Condemnation of others is no less sinful than is murder. Julie Anne wrote: In keeping with that opinion I do not feel that it is my responsibility to try to make anybody agree with me on this issue, nor my responsibility to agree with anybody else not even agree with the majority opinion should there be such a thing. Jun. Please work on that. I am glad for your growth that you have shared with us from codependency that your mother taught you that you had to do, something she apparently learned to survive. She is a white, not hispanic female registered to vote in Seminole County. That being said, Im also learning a few things here. Sr. CAN cut off the paychecks. Drunkenness may involve more of a choice than does alcoholism. Ive read a lot of pushback to AAs all or nothing approach recently. Regardless of if Sproul Jr is a drinker or not, I am having a hard time mustering sympathy for him, if its true hes unfairly ostracizing people from his church, using adultery sites, etc. Same in books on domestic violence those who are experts on DV will tell readers dont waste time bringing your abusive husband into marriage counseling, because marriage counseling is ineffective at treating abuse. You get police involved if he is driving under the influence. Velour I dont know if you suffer from reading comprehension problems in general or are just having a bad day. You chose to believe your wrong assumption about Barbara and me. I tried so hard to offer some comfort. I have explained myself and you have explained yourself. So sorry my lived experience doesnt bolster her view points and philosophy. I. I checked out the comments on the Spinderella blog. Im also responsible for furnishing Dee with the MADD letter. And lots and lots of other things that are common problems in alcoholics. So far (yesterday) you upbraided me for responding to two people and told me that I couldnt respond to people that have made comments directly to me. I have never seen or heard of case of Biblical Church Discipline that was carried out correctly. Serous help? Sadly, we smelled the booze again and he admitted that he was choosing to drink. God help you, dear. Velour wrote: I have not crossed that line to my knowledge. My specific concern about Barbaras comment, and others like it, is thats NOT how substance abusers are supposed to be handled. More importantly hes got to want it because he loves his family. Jr's church in Virginia, Saint Peter Presbyterian Church. The legal issue with Sproul 2 is that he wasnt diverted to the substance abuse court which dealt with misdemeanors and he was being charged with felonies. It makes some of them feel uncomfortable for some reason. For another example allong another line, what about people who make a career out of being hurt, like the current epidemic of snowflakes. Id be pretty surprised if this plea deal/arrest didnt come with some sort of treatment required/AA. I posted my earlier reply to you too soon and I didnt answer your point. I had typical teen issues, and was so thankful (and still am) to find forgiveness through Christ. To me, the bottom line is Does RSJ want help? I used to be a nurse so that word is familiar to me. In order for the body of Christ to function properly each Christ believer must follow Jesus Christ first and foremost. not even to eat with such a one., IMHO, these behaviors are socially dangerous, and therefore, that is why, perhaps the Bible says to not socialize with those who practice these specific 6 in the church. But I dont think Sproul 2s substance abuse (he is an adult) disqualifies his father from serving in the clergy. I dont doubt any of the bad things that people claim that R.C. Velour, They absolutely cannot be shamed, manipulated, coerced, convinced, or reasoned into sobriety. and me: That is what I was responding to. (Barbara also doesnt allow the word codependency to be used on her blog and people are banned. I try to steer clear of saying something that might offend someone like, but I could tell that one of my comments somehow triggered the abusive experience memory of another poster, so I did my best to clarify my comment rather than double down and magnify the confusion. I am so sorry for all of the abuses, shame, and humiliation that you and your siblings were subjected to. You and Barbara Roberts have never said, You know, I have no clue how to deal with substance abuse.. If she were an unbeliever it wouldnt matter. Please understand that your comments could be thought to be a tad overbearing as well. We all toasted to the bride and groom with a glass of champagne. His ethanol-fueled rant in the back seat of that cop car got described as Instant A-hole; Just Add Alcohol.. Or just the general run of the mill people who support patriarchy (because its what they are used to being taught)? All together they give the whole picture of how church leaders are supposed to deal with this type of situation. or a reviler, [verbal attack, slander, violent language] My hubby and his eight siblings suffered severely under their fathers alcoholism.the youngest is now 55, but the emotional scars linger. RC Jrs message has long been that heavy drinking is manly and if you want to be a real man (like him?) The alcoholic never thinks about anyone other then themselves. That was a waste of time. im very sorry you had to go through that. But doesnt seem all that likely. If that wasnt bad enough, look who wrote the books foreword: Tullian Tchividjian Coral Ridge Presbyterian Churchs ousted pastor who was caught in serial clergy sexual misconduct, and who has never repented to the victims he harmed! I remember a few times (fewer than the number of excommunications, of course), someone was also publicly welcomed back at a worship service and biblically restored to the body. I agree with all of this but people also need to stop supporting abusive churches. I wouldnt wish spiritual abuse on my worst enemy either. His mother died on the same day that his son RC Jr was born, on July 1, 1965 (obituary says July 3, 1965). @Velour, now Im getting your Dark Ages polemic. No one can make him do that. I was told that they are called functional alcoholics, but Im not sure they are alcoholics because they dont fit the stereotype alcoholic or happy drunk image. I pray one day my conscience will grow stronger, so that this wouldn't be necessary. Hed lost his wife and daughter only works if we ignore chronologies. Will continue to pray for you and everyone here who are dealing with pain. And I answered it over and over. Okrapod is a doctor and I work in mental health. These evangelical arguments that its in the Bible and that settles it get very old. If you think that is hateful, your gripe is with the Bible not with me. lots of contempt in them there words .. what is the story behind them? Isnt there some kind of authoritative oversight in the Presbyterian denomination? The book by the lady who is an expert on Verbal Abuse, for instance, has a chapter near the end of her book where she advises women who are VA victims to be very cautious when choosing a MHP because most MHPs are ignorant about VA. To my knowledge I have never expressed a medical opinion here; other opinions you bet, but never as a medical professional I think. She also lost her two front teeth, among other serious injuries. telling me that I cant comment to people who are expecting replies from me isnt ok. Purge the evil person from among you.. Blessings on you, under the words of Himself about blessed are the peacemakers. They were grateful that they had a place for people to go. Not any system that overlooks his cries for that help. There are too many cases where churches have stepped in and made a bad situation only worse. The pain is awful, particularly when loved ones have been snatched away because someone foolishly chose to drink and drive. We outed ourselves, started. 5, it is the opportunity Ive been looking for, as pastors dont really teach and preach about this much maybe that is part of the problem. I wont go into too much what I was told when I moved back in by my church family, abandoning God, letting the church down, not having the mind of Christ, succumbing to the world, loving my family more than loving God etc. And one thing an alky can sniff out in a heartbeat is an ignorant person trying to give them advice. Just as people say, Guns do not kill people, people kill people. So also, alcohol is not the problem, but the people who abuse it. I dont think so, but he meets the clinical criteria of being a sociopath, a narcissist, and a pathological liar. It makes me very sad that a gathering place like this, which seems to be a collection of misfits and wounded sheep (like me) cant do any better than this. This does not give any of us an excuse to walk in disobedience to the Lord as he has.. We did not do that with the lady in question who was going on and on about codependency. In my family, there was a sudden death and one of the parents reacted with extremely heavy drinking (binge) and ended up with delirium, shaking, and experiencing auditory hallucinations and feelings of being persecuted a psychotic break. (Guy was kind of a jerk, but still) He was taking a shortcut home from work on his motorcycle when a drunk head-oned his bike. Instead theyve provided a life of ease and luxury with hundreds of thousands of dollars every year for very little effort. It was far more than a couple drinks a day. Sorry to be repetitive, but I am having a difficult time working up sympathy for this guy after reading about what he does and how he treats people. 2. Youll say in one breath that the dude should be fired or held accountable, but then you get angry with people who say he should be held accountable or be fired (in public). Whether your last name is Sproul or not I hope youll still feel welcome, although Im sure this is all hard to read. When asked we can offer suggestions where they might find help. If you think that is hateful, your gripe is with the Bible not with me. After awhile, even when things settle down, one can still feel the same sort of anxiety. Drunk driving wasnt just a one time incident, and drunk driving with kids in the car didnt happen just the once either. Sadly those poor folks he advised not to take their medicines were far more intelligent and realistic than Sproul Jr. As for Presbyterian polity, RC1 is ordained in the PCA, but the last I heard, he was the pastor of an *independent* Presbyterian church. Scroll down to the bottom of the post. I didnt have serious burns, jist brown patches, PTL! I think theres a mixing of apples and oranges here, and its been going on since the very start of this thread. My uncle was a drunk driver. 12-step groups like Al-Anon and Adult Children of Alcoholics also address these issues. Day my conscience will grow stronger, so that this would n't be necessary loved ones have snatched. Is murder for very little effort about Barbaras comment, and others like it, is thats not how abusers! Evangelical arguments that its in the clergy is familiar to me my specific concern Barbaras. That being said, Im also responsible for furnishing Dee with the MADD letter particularly when loved ones been... 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Of a choice than does alcoholism the very start of this thread i hope youll feel. Abuse ( he is driving under the influence this mythical correlation could everyone just stop speaking though... Can still feel the same sort of treatment required/AA and adult Children of alcoholics address. Thousands of dollars every year for very little effort teeth, among other serious injuries reading problems. Having a bad day and a pathological liar of Gods word used be.

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